Comments

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SysOp wrote (edited )

FYI: episode 9 "Child's Play" @ 05:30 into the episode... the book page she is reading on the train:

Page 51 of Eyewitness Companions: Mythology by Neil Philip, Philip Wilkinson. Google Books

Quote I matched: "god of the sea and, along with Zeus and the Underworld god Hades, was one of the three greatest deities of Ancient Greece. He had huge power, and his ability to summon up earthquakes and storms at sea made mortals tremble at his strength. If thwarted or defeated, he would unleash a terrible flood—which is precisely what happened when he got involved in a dispute over which deity should have power over Athens."

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SysOp wrote (edited )

@2:38 - the narrative that audiences liked it, critics did not, I think is generally true if you look at a key point you emphasized. Expensive action scene after high-budget action scene. The violence is titillating. There are people who like the film just because of the energy, violence, action. Same probably goes for the customs, artwork, etc.

The story - and it's themes as they relate to other stories and the world at large - that's something I don't find consumptive audiences put much concern into other than expanding on the elements they liked (fight scenes, technology levels of fighting in one group vs. another, etc).

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SysOp wrote

@28:40 I would also emphasize that metaphor does not require authorial intent. In the storytelling of Muhammad, the Quran, the author of the story truly believes much of what he is telling. And audiences can project upon such metaphorical story elements from their own mind, even when they contradict other parts of the story or other well-known (competing/conflicting) stories. The crisis of a society comes when people forget that metaphors are dynamic, shape shifting, and instead declare them factual and declare certain interpretations of them as believers and other interpretations as non-believers. In contrast, when progression of understanding and expansion of tolerance are the central concern (the highest concern) - one would declare such story elements as dynamic, flexible, fascinatingly complex. Inclusive of multiple interpretations, and even future ideas and thoughts, instead of a closed and rigid system of segregating interpretations into group factions.

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SysOp wrote

Paradox story element, a key to mythology stories, paradoxes of interpretation. Human psychology, mind seams.

Does Yoda mean that he knows Rey took the books, has the library, or does he mean that her past experience of self-raising, like Buddha story, prepares her to be the author of new books? The paradox is this: how did the books get written, what comes first - experience or books? Who teaches the book author?

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SysOp wrote

Yoda's point was that her life's pain, on her home world, parent loss - was her training. The brief encounter with Luke on the island was like a doctorate thesis committee. Her training was her entire lifetime of suffering.

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SysOp wrote

"For all you people out there that theorized over the last 2 years on reddit, youtube or fan forum who snoke was, or his background

For all you people who wondered how the great jedi master Luke, who fearlessly confronted Vader and The Emperor and help take down the empire in the OT, wondering how he was going to help fight against the first order (remeber, they made a big deal about finding him in TFA...it was all about the map). But only to find out he was hermit and coward, got taken down by a girl in a mini duel, a girl who only held a light saber twice, and then only for him to die a senseless death

For all you people who spent the last 2 years theorized on who Rey's parents were, only to find out she was abonded by drunks.

For all you people who remember watching The Empire Strikes Back in a movies theater when you were an 8 years old kid, all you out there that grew up with Star Wars as part of their childhood.

How about Knights of Ren? Well you get the point, and i can go on and on

To all you people I just want you guys to know that Disney and Rian Johnson took their middle fingers, shoved them straight up your ass and took your $20. Im done with this franchise!" - https://www.reddit.com/r/RedLetterMedia/comments/7jke23/spoilers_star_wars_the_last_jedi_discussion_thread/dre9610

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SysOp wrote

"I really hope Disney will now get the same treatment we gave to EA, because of their hidden goals in these movies. It would be good for our culture and civilization: short, medium and long term.

With TFA they fooled some people with many hopes and hypes. But I saw TLJ failure coming from very afar, because when you grow up it becomes so obvious big Hollywood studios with only money in their minds must do this kind of things to franchises. You see, George Lucas did like money, but he proved now and again that for him there was and is more to his working in art than merely money. He is a man with certain values and goals in life, most of them pretty healthy and deep, which in one way or another he fused into his works.

And so these two movies now really proved even to the most sap of viewers that SW was indeed George Lucas. It was bound to his sensitivity in life and history, his subjective understanding of the world (paired with that of good collaborators, for sure), and of course also the numerous mistakes sometimes coming out of his naive film making skills. Yes, not everything this man did was perfect, but that is true for 99% of the myths and stories written by any ambitious story teller in history. You may always nit pick and build a fair critic of somebody's body of works, from Homer to Tolstoy, from Tolkien to Miyazaki, from Dante to Asimov, passing through Gaiman or any other person. Some of these authors were better, some were worse in their specific art. What stays is that Lucas' lore was decently eternal and allowed youths of all walks of life and in any world culture to dream and impersonate themselves into these stories, these heroes, that looked so far from their earthy lives, while delivering higher moral and spiritual values to them in a very cool format.

Lucas wanted a story that had to be a myth for the modern (initially Anglo-Saxon) world, and he delivered it, with all aspects of typical humane anthropological archetypes and many forms of human spirituality funded into his opera. Not all perfect, not always completely successfully, but forever inspirationally.

Disney only entered into this "Galaxy" for money and the social engineering they are deemed to apply on society by their prominent cultural role in it. Their collaborator Kathleen Kennedy, for however capable of a business professional she may be, is clearly in this only for personal ego building and to deal with personal unresolved complexes. They both end up perpetrating their moral weaknesses onto the viewership. A strong difference compared to Lucas, who was perhaps worse at film making, maybe a weaker man sometimes, but wanted to deliver a message and uplift the common viewer to something higher through a very popular mean/media.

What happened to Star Wars is very sad, but it is the world we are living in nowadays. Indeed, what happened to Star Wars is actually a perfect metaphor of the civilizational struggle and battle our generation in history is living through. On one side a purely individualist ego- and money-driven civilizational trope, ready to use any mean, or any twist of human psychology to rule and manipulate, on the other side traditional worlds nearer to spirituality that albeit very imperfect still live for and through higher values and visions embedded into a more eternal understanding of life on earth, as well as a collective sense of life and humanity manifested through responsibility in one's actions and therefore one's art. And doesn't this resemble a little bit what Lucas tried to defend us from with his Dark Side-Light Side message for the modern person?

I'm never going to spend again not only money, but also no more seconds of my life on any new SW product, like I don't do on any other product of this war onto myself and the psychological well-being of me and people dear to me.

I'm pretty sure SW will go from being a relatively legendary product, into eventually being one more useless series that will fade away in a few years. Some things you can't buy with money. Disney knows it, the management is made up of cunning people, they are in SW for the next few years or exactly the time needed to strip the brand clean from any deepness and meaning, then let the world forget about it and pass to the next one. But the old Lucas trilogies will stay with future civilizations as decent examples of human story telling that were fit for the historic age they were released in, contrary to anything Disney will ever release.

We can help Disney and the industry stop this treatment of ourselves only by stripping them of our money AND attention. Attention in particular. I will do for sure, I hope many many more will realize this is an important interest of us all. And who knows, despite I don't really believe in it, maybe there is still some small hope for SW (we saw with the EU that there are other artists that simply get what SW was meant to be and can creatively enrich it). But not for now." - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drds2zl

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SysOp wrote

"Yeah next installment is getting pirated. Utter shit this movie. Social justice trope after another. No subtly. Every theme has to be spelled out, insulting the viewers intellignece. Ren has ZERO character development because, you know, girl power. No continuity from TFA. Just complete shit. Then you have all the plot holes, which alone aren't enough to sink the movie. Random asian women??? This is a rebellion, where are all the fucking men? Oh yeah, white men are evil, I forgot. How is the rebellion able to repopulate if all the women are dieing and fighting. Just throw biology out the window, why not.

New title: Star Wars, The Social Justice Warrior

This movie is made for two reasons:

  1. cater to the lowest denominator of the population
  2. make easy money with production/cgi gimmicks

If you want to be pandered to for 2.5 hours, enjoy!" - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdsggw/

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SysOp wrote

"Total letdown...I saw the movie twice, I really wanted to like it, I really did. I didnt read any reviews ahead of time, I avoided any spoiler materials, I wanted to be surprised, and boy was I ever.

TFA set up big questions:

Who is Rey? Who are her parents? What is her connection to the bigger picture?

Who is Snoke? Where did he come from? How did he rebuild the Empire after such a crushing defeat? Is he a Sith? Where did the scars come from? How does he know Luke?

There was a lot of buildup, lots of anticipation. Even Kathleen Kennedy got in on the speculation saying twins run in the Skywalker family. Then, after two years, it was like running into a wall. Nothing, Rey is a nobody. Snoke, well just as he is starting to get interesting, lets just kill him. No answers.

The forced humor in the script just didn't work. Leia flying through space was ridiculous. Purple haired Admiral, she was a waste of a character. Rose is an unneeded character and a distraction. Felt like she she was forced into the script to increase diversity and to get Finn away from Rey, to introduce a new love interest because they decided Rey and Finn weren't going to be a thing. If Finn and Rose were not in the movie, nothing different would have happened. They were a big distraction, waste of screen time. I love long movies, I'd sit through a good 4 hour movie, but this movie was too long for no reason.

The beginning of the movie felt like it was just one set-up after another, Very disjointed. Every time a character mentioned another character that wasn't in the current scene, they jumped to that character and a new scene. Very jarring. There was no pacing. It certainly didn't feel like this movie picked up immediately after TFA.

The slow speed spaceship chase was absolutely stupid. The ships couldn't light speed for an instant to get in front of the resistance and turn around? They have to just slowly pace the resistance ships? They cant call to other First Order ships and tell them where to meet to get in front of the stupid ship? No tension. It was a forced plot scheme to put Poe in a box and make him "grow" into a leader.

But the biggest issue is Luke. Over the original three movies, he grew up, becomes the hero taking a path that Yoda and Obi Wan never saw. Only Luke could turn Vader and save his father and stop the Empire. So, its been 40 years, we cannot wait to see the wisest, most powerful Jedi ever and we get a winy, old man version of Hayden Christianson's Anakin. Then he's killed off without even a fight. He died because he force projected himself? We never got to see the hero he grew into.

I tried watching ANH last night just to see good Luke. All I see now is the stubborn winy loser that refused to leave the island and died there. Thanks for ruining Star Wars Rian Johnson." - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdshag

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SysOp wrote

"The line, "let old things die" really resonated with me... The Last Jedi is a film about moving forward, moving on... To expect things to stay the same would be very close-minded, people change, they grow, positively or negatively, or sometimes even regress. This movie had so many beautiful underlying themes that seem to be overlooked by many. The Last Jedi asks questions about the Jedi, their teachings, should they be considered the Ultimate good in the Universe? Is Ben truly gone? Does Rey's Parentage matter?

Your questions where not answered the way you think, but is that really such a bad thing? It means much more to characters like Rey to realize that she can't be stuck in the past, trying to find her parents in every father/mother figure she meets.

This movie even gets kinda Meta, burning up the rulebook on the Star Wars archetypes. The Jedi, The Sith, The First Order/Empire, The Rebellion/Resistance, in the end... it's time to let these old things die...

The Last Jedi pushes Star Wars forward into a direction we've never been in before, and I for one am excited to see what comes next." - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdsspr

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SysOp wrote

"Worst Star Wars film to date. I understand the prequels weren’t good movies but at the very least they furthered the storyline and gave us backstory to meaningful characters. The Last Jedi was a mess. It took everything from the previous 7 movies and threw it out the window, making them all pointless.

Luke isn’t a hero, he is a terrible old man that started it all because he thought about killing his nephew, the child of his best friend and twin sister. The same Luke that wouldn’t kill the emperor and saw the good in Darth Vader even after all the terrible shit he did. Then he dies a completely uninspired death.

Rey is a nobody so who cares about her anymore. Supreme leader Snoke, supposedly the most powerful dark force user we’ve ever seen, is a throw away character that meant nothing. Don’t even get me started on the Finn and Rose storyline. The resistance is dead. They have like 15 people left and literally not one person in whole galaxy responded to their distress signal besides hologram Luke.

There is nothing to be excited about in the next movie. Kylo Ren vs Rey round 3? That’s what we are heading for. I’m rooting for Kylo Ren because he is at least an interesting character with a good back story. Words can not describe how angry I am at Rian Johnson and this movie" - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdswxe

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SysOp wrote

"Saw this twice already. Really disappointed. The first half of the movie was tedious and uneventful. Acting was piss poor in some scenes. Humor was forced and contrived most of the time.

Also it seems like SJWs made up the creative committee. Why is it that the strong majority of the first order and the casino police were white men (aka the bad guys), but the resistance leaders and pilots looked like the United Nations (aka the good guys)?

I feel like this movie could have been great but it was a huge disappointment. Poor writing too. So Leia survives a deep vacuum of space and Rey is now a super powerful Jedi with no training? The prequels were good because Luke struggled, showed humanity, and was relatable." - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdti59

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SysOp wrote

"The biggest crime of this movie is how it does, in fact, have multiple scenes that are just fantastically awesome, but after literally each of them, the movie is paused, the lights go on, a Disney rep enters the stage and explains to the audience: "Heck no, this is not how this is going work, let's try this again."

This would have been an infinitely better film if Leia and Finn had died, and, of course, Kylo had been turned to the light side (I would have been okay with some sort of last-minute betrayal later on, but THIS? Come on.) Also, as awesome as Kylo's ending of Snoke was, I didn't buy it. How could he miss the other saber turning? And that's just the peak of the shitberg." - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdto6l/

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SysOp wrote

"Saw it for the second time today, didn't like it the first watch... I might have loved it this time. Go figure. As Luke warned us, "this is not going to go how you think" which I wasnt ready for on Thursday, I was today. I also missed a lot of the subtle foreshadowing and visual cues during the first watch and was able to pick them up this time." - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdtz66/

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SysOp wrote

"I'm having a hard time accepting this as the 8th star wars movie. What exactly about it was memorable? There wasn't an epic lightsaber duel and there wasn't even a simple gunfight between the resistance and first order. The acting was great, but it really feels like this movie was just milked for cute animal toys and advertisement for the next movie." - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdu0jg/

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SysOp wrote

"I'm having a hard time accepting this as the 8th star wars movie. What exactly about it was memorable? There wasn't an epic lightsaber duel and there wasn't even a simple gunfight between the resistance and first order. The acting was great, but it really feels like this movie was just milked for cute animal toys and advertisement for the next movie." - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdu0jg/

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SysOp wrote

Regarding Luke's ending...

"I thought it was a magnificent sendoff--a real character arc as we see this broken hermit waiting to die gradually return to himself, reclaim his bonds with other people and the force itself, and ultimately save the day not simply with raw power but with wisdom and cleverness before becoming one with the force beneath a vision of twin setting suns (which is one of the most beautiful images in the entire saga). I think it was a far, far more interesting take than Luke simply being another Obi-Wan/Dumbledore/Gandalf-style powerful kindly mentor.

That said, I do understand there are a lot of EU fans and other Star Wars fans who wanted a less flawed take on the character closer to the noble farmboy of the OT, and who wanted to see him out in the galaxy using immense power to kick the ass of evil rather than hiding away waiting to die. To me it felt perfect (and actually sorta close to Yoda, who went from major galactic leader to kooky swamp recluse before simply dying of old age), but it was definitely a risky choice that was bound to piss some people off." - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdv09x/

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SysOp wrote

"Not going to repeat the same things everyone else is writing, but I did not like this movie. So many ridiculous and just stupid scenes. Didn't feel like star wars. Felt like galaxy quest had a love child with lost in space. Somehow they made a movie worse than the prequels. At least the prequels felt like the star wars universe." - https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7kbrob/the_last_jedi_opening_weekend_day_3_megathread/drdudyj/